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Video: LHS Teacher Who Referenced Creationism Retains Job

District 128 has told Libertyville High School teacher Beau Schaefer to not teach creationism in his biology class.

 
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Creationism will not be taught at LHS: Beau Schaefer retains his job
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Creationism will not be taught at LHS: Beau Schaefer retains his job
Related Topics: Creationism, Lake County News, and Libertyville High School
What did you think of District 128's decision? Tell us in the comments.

Lee Bomgaars

1:46 pm on Wednesday, March 23, 2011

I am not at home in Libertyville at present so I really do not know all of the proceedings which have taken place regarding this issue. I am however concerned regarding the interviewing of Rob Sherman in relation to the issue in District 128. I am glad that he at least accepts the decision of the shool board, although not pleased or in agreement. Please tell me what property he might own in Libertyville taxing district which should give him any voice in this matter. Lee Bomgaars

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AtheistAtLarge

11:06 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

This is not up for local debate, this is an illegal activity that ANYONE has the right and power to bring up to the proper authorites.
What Beau did is against the LAW. Not to mention a total abomination to discovery and learning. Learning Theology isnt the same as learning a science. Theology demands such and such be true without question, only reflection on its demands as to how one should continue to adhere to said demands.
However science doesnt demand anything, it exists for to be found. In order to do so however a demanding sequence of events must occur, that you seek out information, question, test, and retest your findings. You must make careful analysis of data and make predictions of outcomes to events within your scope of study or project. You must also seek out others that arent affiliated with you to make sure that your conclusions are not biased in any way and the conclusions you have are consistant with the data and procedures youve set forth.

I hope that clears something up for you

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Chi-an Chang

2:15 pm on Wednesday, March 23, 2011

Hi Lee,

In February, Rob Sherman raised the issue at the school board meeting after a student contacted him concerned that Beau Schaefer was placing emphasis on creationism in a biology class.

Here's the link to the original story: http://libertyville.patch.com/articles/local-teachers-advised-not-to-teach-creationism
Here's Rob's take on his website: http://www.robsherman.com/news/2011/03/05.htm

Hope this helps!

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Teresa Veselack

10:52 pm on Wednesday, March 23, 2011

My name is Teresa Veselack and I am a freshman at Loyola University of Chicago (LHS alum).
I can barely stomach some of the comments made by these belligerent, and frankly ignorant parents. I fully understand their concern, considering the importance of separation of church and state (LHS being a public school), but I had Mr. Schaefer not once, but twice in class...and I have the utmost confidence in his competency to teach biology in an ethical, legal, respectful, and CORRECT manner. I believe 100% in evolution, but I also believe 100% that this situation has been blown out of proportion. "My daughter is DEVASTATED". ???? Give me a break. I know several people who were present for that SAME lecture, and thought it was merely an exaggeration on the part of Rob Sherman, and what ever student complained. District 128 made the right decision by allowing Mr. Schaefer to continue at LHS. He is a wonderful human being, an excellent teacher, and an incredible mentor.

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AtheistAtLarge

10:52 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

WoW
1) To miss Loyola, appealing to authority when youre not an authority is a falacy. In you mentioning that youre at Loyola is using that falacy in hoping to spark yet another, an emotional appeal. Granted the whole "devistated" thing is an emotional appeal and did seem an exaggeration. However your ignorance on the subject abounds.
a) It is ILLEGAL for creationism to be taught in a science class, so your comment of confidence is void
b) It is unethical to do illegal activities, again your confidence is not only void but now suspect
c) In so teaching creationism, he disrespected the laws of the land, the US and the State, now your confidence shows to be outright bias
Now Id like to address the "out of proportion". A minimum of 6 states have been sued to get creationism out of their laws, Pa, Tn,Tx, that I can think of off hand. Texas is key, a Senator recently demanded " someone needs to stand up to these scientest with their science". This guy is trying to not only get creationism taught in Texas but every school in the US. Texas is the countries leading purchaser of school books in the nation and the publishers will bend to their whims on what is in those books. The Illinois school board last year had to REJECT books from the publisher because of the INCORRECT documentations in those books as directed from Texas officials.
There is a HUGE problem in this country in that so many creationists do not understand what science is and what religion isnt.

Chris Henson

7:35 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

"Saying you can't mix biology and creationis­m is like saying you can't mix chemistry and physics."

Sorry, lady. But you are hopelessly wrong. It's more accurately like saying you can't mix meteorolog­y and Hopi rain dancing. A biology class is for learning the science of life. A religion class is for learning the customs and culture of faith systems. Think of it this way: do you want someone teaching your child about evolution in Sunday school?

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Christine Baustert

10:02 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

Don't be so condescending! "Sorry, Lady." ?? Why are the 'faithful' so threatened by this topic? I agree with separation of church and state but evolution is a theory that you can choose to accept or not based on your belief system. It seems to me that if you are comfortable in your faith and what you believe, hearing challenging theories should allow you the forum to further discuss and reinforce your values. Being rude and trite with others whose opinions you don't share just makes you seem scared and then kids wonder, "Is there any truth in this that they are afraid of it?"

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AtheistAtLarge

11:39 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

To Christine Baustert
I dont think that saying "sorry lady" is an ad hom in any respect, CH doesnt know who this lady is and she's a lady, so his comment doesnt seem to be condecending.

Now It looks like you might want to get invovled with a discussion, one major problem here is that the terms must be understood by all parties. The term theory in this case refers to a "scientific theory" . You might need a science dictionary or you can use wiki to see what this means. Basically this type of theory refers to the facts and the laws of nature that show the subject matter to be true. That the laws and evidences may change however, the theory is fact and is not something to "believe in", its fact. Once again a ST is the group of facts that show something to be true, not that someone just thought something up.
As to faith, faith can not be a ST since there is no evidence for what you believe, if there was, there wouldnt be a need for faith of the subject.
Faith in a subject is only testable to the point that you want to beleive in something, however your wants and desires do not make the subject true nor can it show what you beleive is true.
So the "theory of evolution" isnt something to be comfortable with, nor to just accept or deny, its fact. The facts within the theory are the best representation that mankind can offer to show how evolution works, I invite you to read about it.

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AtheistAtLarge

11:42 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

cont.
Recent advances in technology give new evidences that darwin couldnt even dream of, geneology, anthropolgy, chemisty have all advanced much over the last 200 yrs. All of which not just confirm evolution as fact but are part of the facts themselves.

If you have any questions and are interested in learning more about the subject, please contact me and I can forward information, videos etc to you to help you in your understanding of what the world has to offer mankind

Tim Froehlig

7:49 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

Food for thought - and PLEASE know I'm NOT taking sides here. But I've always wondered - if evolution is truly real, then why are all of the things we supposedly "evolved" from, like apes, still here? Wouldn't that kind of defeat the entire point of evolving in the first place? I mean, I can understand genetic mutations happening to species, but why would only some of the apes evolve, and not others? Just something to think about for fun.

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Chris Henson

8:11 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

Tim, yours is a common question about evolution. The answer is it simply doesn't work that way. Things don't necessarily disappear just because something better comes along. As an adult I've lived in 13 different apartments and three different houses. Each new home was preferable to the previous one for a number of reasons. And yet those previous homes all still exist and provide comfortable homes for different people.

Many millions of species of everything from single-celled organisms to plants to animals to our ancestors have gone extinct because they failed to adapt or were hunted to extinction by better adapted creatures or were just unlucky. But that doesn't mean that everything becomes extinct when something better comes along.

Just as you and your spouse won't die the instant your child is born, a parent species doesn't die when a genetic mutation occurs in its offspring. All ape species have evolved over time, just as man has evolved over time. Every species is constantly trying to improve upon itself. Dogs are evolving. Fish. Birds. All trying to create a better version of themselves through procreation.

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AtheistAtLarge

11:54 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

Tim we didnt evolve from apes, we are apes. This classification is not something of debate, its a class of organisms in which we are as a species part of.

Now from what did we evolve from ? Well I dont think it was an ape, since anything resembling a common ape these days didnt exist 10-15 million years ago.
Evolution doesnt demand that a species go extinct, it just suggests that natural selection allows for the proagation of traits that are homogenious to the enviroment, survive.
Example, Wolves exist and dogs come from Wolves. Whales exist that come from Hippos that come from Whales that are exticnt.
In addition to your querry, why would some evolve and others not, one simple answer is migration, another is climate changes, and another is food sources. To understand better you might want to draw a venn diagram and see a mulitude of possibilites arise.

fixbone

8:15 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

Evolution is real - it is a theory, open to scientific testing and thought - gravity is a theory open to scientific thought and testing.

"if evolution is truly real, then why are all of the things we supposedly "evolved" from, like apes, still here?" - obviously you do not understand the theoryof evolution.

Creationism is a belief, based on a religious book - untestable by scientific methods

This teacher may be able to teach science well, the kids may love him but is judgment is in question if as a science teacher he believes creationism belongs in the science class. It is his right (and anyone elses) to believe freely whatever he chooses (that is america) BUT would we really take medical advice from the bible to cure disease or injury - imho no - it is not science - medicine is science, etc

Teach creationism is a religious class - in public schools if you want as along as EVERY other "creation belief" from every other religion is included BUT it does not belong in science class - it is NOT science

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Tim Froehlig

8:22 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

I think comparing houses to human DNA is kind of like comparing apples and oranges. Over millions and millions of years, some apes evolve into modern day humans, yet others don't at all? I find it fascinating that so many scientists make sweeping blanket statements about things that are alleged to have happened millions of years ago as if they were there to witness it. Science is one of the most valuable tools our society and culture has, certainly. But you say all species are trying to create better versions of themselves through procreation. If it were truly that simple, every child each one of us had would be better that their parents, but clearly, that is not the case and it doesn't work that way. And you kind of proved my point with your apartment analogy. Over time, if you lived long enough, you would be in the newest and best apartment, theoretically, as you say. But over time, the old apartments and houses that you used to inhabit would also become worn, decayed and completely destroyed...and eventually therefore no longer exist. Again, not looking to debate anyone because I respect everyone's beliefs, just provking interesting discussion.

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Chris Henson

8:39 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

True scientists don't make "sweeping blanket statements." They draw reasoned conclusions based on empirical evidence. And there is a huge difference between trying and succeeding. I'm sorry the simple explanation of why species don't cease to exist when they evolve didn't work for you. It may be time to crack a book on the subject. Bill Bryson writes beautifully on the subject in "A Brief History of Practically Everything." Just remember that evolution is an imperceptibly slow process that occurs over millions of years. You can't see it happening right before your eyes. It is only by looking at the evidence of the ages over time that it can be truly appreciated. So in the "previous homes" example, you've got to consider that each dwelling would deteriorate over millions of years, not decades. Which would be awesome because then I wouldn't have to paint this spring.

Tim Froehlig

8:26 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

Fixbone- I am NOT saying creationsim belongs in a science class. I only posted what I did because I was just hoping to have a positive, though-provoking discussion about a topic. Again, let me make it clear I am NOT taking sides in this matter, just having discussions with people about evolution. I never said creationism is science, and comments like Fixbone's are why I was hesitant to post a thought on this subject, for fear someone would misunderstand why I was posting, which, unfortunately, took a matter of minutes to happen.

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AtheistAtLarge

12:02 pm on Thursday, March 24, 2011

Tim I think like Christine above youre taking offence when none was offered.
CH is just offering you a good suggestion so that you may actually debate the subject matter with some understanding of the subject matter.
Yourself and Christine above are perfect examples of why creationism must not be taught in science class's and that teachers need to pay attention to the learning difficulties of their students and the school board must help the teachers in addressing these fundemental problems.
These facts of life need not be a mystery, nor hidden away because of mysticism.

Tim Froehlig

8:53 am on Thursday, March 24, 2011

Chris: Thanks for the thought-provoking discussion without it turning into a feud either way. I appreciate you sharing your views and opinions on here with me. Now, if we could just get this cold weather to evolve!

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Scott Metzger

5:17 pm on Thursday, March 24, 2011

I'm not sure how many of you had the pleasure of sitting in on the board meeting, but I would like to applaud the school board, community members, and people on both sides of the aisle for conducting themselves with poise and grace. In fact, Rob Sherman commended the school board on handling the affair quickly and professionally.
We have seen these situations spiral out of control with picketing and such, and I think it speaks volumes about our community that the drama of the situation is confined to well spoken, intelligent people, calmly voicing their opinions in a public forum.
Sidenote: Arika Eagan who said "Saying you can't teach Biology and Creationism is like saying you can't teach Chemistry and Physics together," is a student from Mundeleing High School. Regardless of my opinions on the matter I commend Arika, and the rest of the students and community members who wanted to stand up and be heard.
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AtheistAtLarge

8:07 am on Saturday, March 26, 2011

Standing up and being heard can be a great thing, and is demanded in a society like ours, however it seems that knowing anything on the subject matter isnt required when speaking. And thats the problem. Those voices are just tossed into the garbage due to the lack of knowledge.

Its like a 1st grader talking about teeth, theyll just demand a raise for the price of a tooth from the tooth fairy

And I would suggest a medal of honor for Rob Sherman, he keeps his cool through these things.

There is going to be another debate with Rob and a minister of the moody bible church in Chicago, if anyone is interested, contact me or Rob for details.

fixbone

5:32 pm on Thursday, March 24, 2011

"say all species are trying to create better versions of themselves through procreation" - this is not accurate and demonstrates a lack of understanding of evolution - species procreate, make versions - different and varied version of "themselves" - those versions are deemed "better" by the environment in which they live - those different versions that have a competitive advantage then then procreate and perpetuate those advantaged traits are deemed "better" - that is the science of evolution.

This selection of the "fitter" is simple when talking about bacterial strains but very complex in higher species (to the point of complexity - making it hard to fully grasp sometimes) but being complex and hard to understand does NOT make it false or invalid

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Chi-an Chang

9:16 pm on Thursday, March 24, 2011

Libertyville High School students in Mr. Schaefer's biology class, what are your thoughts on this debate? What did you think of his reference to creationism in class? Was it okay or nay?

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dd

9:49 pm on Thursday, March 24, 2011

i go to lhs...mr schaefer is the best..even though i didnt have him...i always hear funny stories and good stuff about him. crationism is an opinion..he teaches it yes but if youre not satisified about him teaching it then...dont be like this guy in the video bashing on mr s. just learn how the teacher teaches it and you can learn on your own if you think differently!

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AtheistAtLarge

12:25 pm on Friday, March 25, 2011

cont.

Now teaching creationism isnt just something out of christianity, there are many creation myths, and everyone of them a myth. The native american indians have many creation myths, and you might be surprised of the Hindu creation myth if youre a christian.

I would hope that something like this will spark an interest in teens to go out of their way to learn something. Your world view may be shattered once you understand better what the world has to offer you

Ana Draa

7:18 am on Saturday, March 26, 2011

This issue was decided long ago by the Supreme Court. What this teacher did was very wrong, illegal,...and he knew it. At a minimum, he should have recieved a punishment, otherwise the board is sending the message that you can "go off the reservation" and there are no reprocussions. My son has suffered worse for being two minutes late to class! For those who are pro-creationisim, you have a choice....Carmel down the street would love to have your students, but it does not belong at our public school.

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AtheistAtLarge

7:56 am on Saturday, March 26, 2011

Carmel doesnt teach creationism and their science program at least used to be very good. They do have an manditory religion class, however I dont think creationists would care for it because it sheds a whole new light on the bible than theyre used to.
Their style isnt of indoctrination, its more of achedemic study of cherry picked parts of the bible. Although the class is manditory it isnt overbearing nor does it blow out of proportion the OT in demanding a literal interpretation of the translations.
They will take any denomination, at least they used to, Im not sure about Atheists tho, but they are extremely tolerant to other religions. The catholic teachings and teachers are, however the catholics themselves can be quite the opposite.

Perhaps Ana you dont know that modern evangelical christians dont believe catholics are christian, kinda strange since the catholics wrote the book you might say :)
Ive even met young catholics that didnt think they were christian, kinda funny isnt it ...

If like a true skeptic you need evidence, the DEBATE FAITH chatroom is open 24/7 365 as long as the servers are up and running, those darn hamsters must be unionized, they keep think they can take carrot breaks ...

Just follow where my name leads you :)

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AtheistAtLarge

8:11 am on Saturday, March 26, 2011

Oh Ana I forgot to add, Beau did get a punishment. His teaching record has a HUGE black stain on it now. He basically has only 2 options now, that is tow the line at LHS, or get a lesser paying job at some evangelical school. For him to get a job at a public school is going to be very hard, unless he moves to Texas ...

Ana Draa

8:18 am on Saturday, March 26, 2011

What modern evangelical Christians believe isn't the point here, nor is it the measuring stick for what we should be doing in our school. That said, what they have to say about the Catholics is irrelevant, I can assure you, especially to the Catholics! It is ironic though, as all Protestant denominations have Catholic roots, like it or not. I grew up Catholic, all the way through Catholic schools (Holy Ghost & St. Agnes), went to college and have been a practicing Methodist for the past 25 years. I have no problem wth people of faith, as a matter of fact in general, I admire them. I have a great problem with people not respecting our constitution, trying to put any aspect of religion in our public schools. As a parent, that's my domain, unless I choose to put my children in a religious based school.

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AtheistAtLarge

9:33 am on Saturday, March 26, 2011

Well Ana we have a debate :)
Does evangelical christianity propose a problem in schools.

I say that their belief is very much the point here, thats exactly why Beau tried to influence his class and introduce creationism.
Christianity is losing a small % of the population in the US every year for the last 10 years, this is plucking some feathers from the evangelical golden goose. They are making waves in many states to try and get creationism in some way into the science class. Theyre trying to use sciency terms for senate and house bills, for commetties etc. to try and convince the ignorant mass's that creationism is more than religious myth.
Answers in Genesis, the Discovery Institute, Hovinds ministries are all pulling out all stops and trying to get some sort of credibility to their personal creation myth over all the rest.
Indoctrination of the young is key to the survival of creationism, its the only way to present the fantasy in a way that can stick in the minds of people as they grow older and become more educated. Since it is so hard to reverse the influences upon the older mind that has had the hate filled radical anti reality notions put into it when they were children.

There are 2 very key time periods of brain growth to either stifle or to nurish the brains logic abilities, one is between 4 and 8, the other is between 12 and 15. Creationists know this.

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