Well said Sully! The Waukegan vs Libertyville comparision was particularly interesting. There's a wonderful program called "Waukegan to College", that tutors and mentors children in Waukegan on their path to college. Why is this program necessary?? Because Waukegan High School has 3300 students and 2 counselors. They cull out the top 150 students, they work with one counselor...the other 3,150 work with the other. In their third year, Waukegan to College has a 100% sucess rate of getting their students into college. The thought that funds and education have no correlaton is not based in reality. Tell that to my cousin who teaches in the city, has 40 kids in a class and 30 books. Sure, those kids have the same opportunities as my L'vill kids...not! From what I see, the biggest problem in Illinois are the extremely bloated school districts...the highest in the nation. It's a crime to see single district school districts...meanwhile there are schools down the road who don't even have enough books for their students. It's a disgrace.

Either you make your kids education a priority and "own it", or don't and let the state guide your kids either way I really don't care. You can afford everything in the country if you make it a focus or priority in your life. However, you can't afford home schooling or private school if you have new cars, cell phones, diners out, trips two times a year so on and so forth. My kids experience liberal indoctrination all the time, and spot it a mile away in science class and social studies class. Kids in D70 get Time Magazine for Kids, "helpful hints" for living, eating, recycling - all these things should be tought at home. Leave the schooling to reading, writing, math, etc. Teachers get into education for the great salary, three months of paid vacation, and retirement bebefits that would make Paris Hilton blush. Kids can't play tag, hug or do anything that could lead to misinterpretation. D70 now even has a report a bully web page, sounds like social regulation to me. Number 7 - I noticed a typo, Libertyville D70 spends 2k LESS per pupil than waukegan school district, you can look that up, fact. Looks like you're misinformed. Here is a link where you can compare districts. http://iirc.niu.edu/District.aspx?districtid=34049070002

Donny is right.

Liberal rags distributed in school? TIME for Kids, they try to moderate their stances but there are still egregious examples of indoctrination, especially when it comes to environmental issues.

Liberal indoctrination is a folk tale? Well then someone better tell Bob Channin, lead counsel for the NEA for 40 years to stop telling folk tales. Go to 17:55 in his retirement speech in 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqn1rvv7Fis and you'll hear this:

"And just in case you may not have noticed, the Wall Street Journal, Fox News, Forbes magazine… they don’t like us very much either. Why, you may ask, is this so? Why are these conservative and right wing ******* picking on NEA and its affiliates? (Laughing and cheering) I will tell you why. It is the price we pay for success. NEA and its affiliates have been singled out because they are the most effective unions in the United States… and they are the nation’s leading advocates for public education and the type of liberal, social, and economic agenda that these groups find unacceptable."

He thinks the NEA is the nation's leading advocate for the liberal agenda. Who are we to disagree?

Actually Donny....per the website you originally referenced...LHS instructional expenditure per student was $11,178, operational expenditure per student was $18, 602. Waukegan High School, instructional $6,343, operational $11.701. That's a whopping 73% increase on what's being spend per child at LHS over Waukegan. All kids in the same county. We must do better, for all the children in our community.

that is a very interesting site. The differences in performance at MS level are significant...at the high school level, it's absolutely unbelievable....LHS has a 400% increase. As the parent of an LHS junior and a D70 6th grader, I wholeheartedly support the state's efforts to consolidate school districts and quite wasting so much money on tiny school districts.

Average teacher salary at LHS, 95,296; Waukegan, 56,253....dang.

http://iirc.niu.edu/CompareSchools.aspx?source=Finances&source2=Expenditure_Rates&level=s&schoolID=340490700022004

Here are the facts... Comment?

So Waukegan spends more per student yet has lower test scores.... hummm... looks like the more money spent per student does NOT translate into higher test scores and better students, period.

Union run schools are the most disconnected government agency next to Medicare and Medicaid.

I erred, the retired superintendent is receiving a $165k teacher pension at age 55. what a great country this is!

That is excessive. Deerfield is too small to have two districts, combine them and save money. The Deerfield School district would be less expensive to manage. Don't raise taxes! It is really starting to add up.

Russ please see my post below. HIgher school funding that leads to a higher quality of education are lies reported in the media. Russ let me ask you this, if your conclusion is true then why is Floria school in Waukegan not producing better students and higher test scores than Copeland school in Libertyville?

I've seen Khan's website and it is very good. Very good as reinforcement, that is. It is not meant to take the place of a teacher (I don't think that's the intent, anyway) or class. It's unfortunate this particular teacher was poor. That's not always the case, however. And again, this assumes the student is motivated to take advantage of this resource. Not all students are. Not all students have access to the internet in their homes either.

More ... The Khan engineers are also working to tweak the exercise platform so it does not confuse genuine mastery with “pattern matching” — a method of problem-solving wherein a student mechanically rehashes the steps necessary to solve that type of problem without necessarily grasping, conceptually, what those steps represent.

Pattern-matching is one of the human brain’s most basic learning tools, Kamens says. It is the sort of useful imitation that allows toddlers to learn how to use language without first learning how grammar works. But there is a difference between imitating problem-solving procedures and mastering the logic undergirding those procedures, Kamens says. Getting to that level of understanding, he says, is probably what determines whether students will remember how to solve a problem after the test is over, after a course is over, and — most importantly, in Khan’s view — once their formal schooling is over.

Khan has half-joked that his ideal assessment model is having professors ambush their students in the hallways with random questions, months after the student has passed the exam, and revise their score based on whether they’ve kept their chops. At Khan Academy, that half-joke is half-real. At a time when students are always within arm’s reach of a computer and a wireless signal, “mechanic practice schedulers” can spring questions on students at intervals to gauge how well they remember how to do certain types of problems.

I suggest Sully you learn about about Khan because it will be the killer app that will kill traditional education ...HIGHER EDUCATION BUBBLE UPDATE: Khan Academy: The Videos Are The Public Face, But The Real Action Is On The Backend:
Using math and computer science concepts decidedly more advanced than most of those in Khan’s video library, the Khan engineers have trained the website’s exercise platform how to predict, with startling accuracy, how likely it is that a student will correctly answer the next practice problem — and whether that student will be able to solve the same type of problem a week, two weeks, and a month later.
They do this by accounting for hundreds of data points that describe, in numbers, the entire history of the relationship between a learner and a concept.
“If [a user is] logged in, then we have the entire history of every problem they’ve done, and how long it took them, and how they did,” says Ben Kamens, the lead developer at Khan Academy. “So whenever anybody does a problem, we see whether they got it right or wrong, how many tries it took them, what their guess was, what the problem was, how many hints they used, and how long they took between each hint.”

Not all students have access to the internet, but it's funny how many poor people have an Iphone these days. Following link is a cashier's time spent at walmart

http://thecollegeconservative.com/2011/12/13/my-time-at-walmart-why-we-need-serious-welfare-reform/

@deadcatbounce my mom having worked in hospitals, hospital labs, immediate care center, etc. On a very regular basis, numerous times per week, she would see people complaining about $5 and $10 co-pays from people on government assistance all the wile their car keys sat on the counter with BWW, Lexus, and Benz car keys... Ron Paul need to get in there with a blow-torch and a pair of pliers and kill Billions and Billions of government programs.

Here is the link for fast reference http://iirc.niu.edu/CompareSchools.aspx?source=Finances&source2=Expenditure_Rates&level=s&schoolID=340490700022004

There is no doubt that school funding varies greatly from district to district and from school to school. But the common conclusion that the better funded a school the better students it produces is a myth. To answer your question, there is a BIG difference in funding per student. However, there is a difference in the number of teachers that have Master's degree. You have to pay higher educated teachers more. Either school could adjust the number of Master Degree teachers it employes, either up or down hence bringing the money spent per student a bit closer together but this won't necessarily bring the underperforming school up in standards or the overachieving school down in standard. Quality education starts at home in a stable two parent household. Throw in all kinds of other issues unrelated to school funding and the quality of education for that child declines because for example the kids can't concentrate because when he gets home mom's drunken boyfriend is going to beat the snot out of him. Teachers should have the proper amount of materials and each school needs to address that individually. A poor district can track down "free" books that other schools discard but I doubt many schools do this. A great education can be obtained in this country despite an "unfair" system, but it is up to the parents to make it a priority.

Reminds me of something I just read recently ...
MEGAN MCARDLE: “it’s all too common for well-meaning middle class people to think that if the poor just had the same stuff we do, they wouldn’t be poor any more (where ‘stuff’ includes anything from a college education to a marriage license to a home). But this is not true. . . . If poor people did the stuff that middle class people do, it’s possible–maybe probable–that they wouldn’t be poor. But this is much harder than it sounds.”

Sounds a bit like Reynolds’ Law: “The government decides to try to increase the middle class by subsidizing things that middle class people have: If middle-class people go to college and own homes, then surely if more people go to college and own homes, we’ll have more middle-class people. But homeownership and college aren’t causes of middle-class status, they’re markers for possessing the kinds of traits — self-discipline, the ability to defer gratification, etc. — that let you enter, and stay, in the middle class. Subsidizing the markers doesn’t produce the traits; if anything, it undermines them.”

And those interested in this stuff should read James Scott’s Seeing Like A State: How Certain Schemes To Improve The Human Condition Have Failed.

Please enlighten me, how I am mistaken (whatever that means) on some of my thoughts?

More money will not solve public education woes, and thankfully we have people on school boards and different levels of government that have the same position as I do. To answer your question, larger class sizes are the norm in very well performing private schools. Post a link or fact - that shows there are districts in this country today, that have 50 students in their class. I don't believe it, 30 maybe but not 50, that's BS.

If you talk to a grade school history teacher or even go to school board meetings, what becomes very clear is that teachers and schools feel they need to do an even better job of teaching what I call gripe or oppression-history and love to tweak curriculum to include more and more victims under the guise of multicultural brotherhood. Curriculum highlights include lots and lots of African-American history, as well as women’s struggle for equality, the history of unions, the struggles of “native Americans”, the role of Hispanics in U.S., Japanese internment camps, the holocaust. As Victor Hanson commented … this pick-and-choose therapeutic curriculum of “oppression” history presented as a melodrama of winners (white male Christian capitalists) and losers (women, people of color, the working classes) that has ensured an entire generation of historical illiterates, who can’t distinguish between the profound and trivial, or identify basic names, dates, and places to ground even their politically-correct views. I asked my son and his friends when they were in eighth grade some easy civil war questions, such as the decade of the civil war and who Sherman was. Sadly none of them had a clue. So yes, there is too much liberal indoctrination in the schools, public and private.

What are you talking about? Union run schools are what they are, union run schools. The administrators are union members, the teachers are union members, and even the maintenance people are union members. Private schools are non-union schools. Nobody wants to destroy public education, even the right-wingers. Many teachers wake up and do what little they have to do to get by, and they can because they have a union representative to back them up. Have you ever seen the procedures on what a school has to do to fire a union teacher? Have you ever seen the movie Waiting for Superman? Teachers go beyond the reading, writing, math and get into gray areas of climate change, marriage, and social studies as to what good government is. There a by FAR many more great teachers than the lazy ones. As to your last line, now you're talking space talk with all do respect.

@deadcatbounce - Right out of the gate the liberal indoctrination starts off with each student having a daily planner - great idea. I have used one all my life since about 5th grade. However, on each page you will find "heros" or great Americans, each with their picture and a very quick bio complete with web links. I would say half of these great Americans are jokes. My elementary school kids read this stuff and almost laugh at the so what is the point factor. Oprah Winfrey, a hero? Far far from it. Most heros in the planner are "social crusiaders", actors, TV people. Only two I likes were Winston Churchill and Hank Aaron. Here are some heroes: Bilaal Rajan, Jordan Thomas, Larry Stewart, David W. Anderson, Sue Thomas, Dr. Hector P. Garcia, Geoffrey Canada, Tara Suri. Just give the kids a freakin planner to teach him or her good habits, leave the hero business up to mom and dad.

Sully,

"Unions don't build curriculums, unions don't provide lesson plans to teachers and unions certainly don't dictate how individual teachers teach." ... This is true, at least on the surface. The social studies curriculum in our Lake Forest schools is based on the National Council for the Social Studies (NCSS) Expectations of Excellence Standards. These standards were created under the guidence of Margit McGuire, a long standing education activist who promotes social studies curricula "To prepare students to ... act politically... have moral and civic virtues such as concern for others, social responsibility and the belief in the capacity to make a difference."

She is also on record saying “Research suggests that students start to develop social responsibility and interest in politics before the age of nine. The way they are taught about social issues, ethics, and institutions in elementary school matters a great deal for their civic development.”

Expectations of Excellence Standards promotes the value of "working for the common good in a global society". Practically every example problem discussed is solved through activism and some form of government control. No case is made for freedom, the benefits of democracy, the amazing fruits of free markets, or the supremacy of our Constitution as the law of the land.

This doesn't mean all our classes are taught according to the doctrine, but the source documents are completely one sided.

"Stop buying the rhetoric pumped by the Koch Brothers and others who want to turn everything American into a profit endeavor!"

Our education system is a $60 million dollar empire with 85% of that being profits made by union employees, and a smaller fraction of that getting passed on to union management as mandatory dues. The Koch brothers do not get one dime from this community, nor do they have control over any decision made in our school system.

If you are so concerned about profiteering in education, then I suggest you take it up with the unions.

I'll take a history curriculum developed by Victor Hanson any day than from any of these so-called educational experts. If others disagree, then I suggest you read up on Victor Hanson.

Donny, you aren't thinking clearly.

All things being equal, yes, throwing more money (past a certain point) will most certainly not improve educational performance. But things are far from equal between an extremely poor, urban elementary school and one in an affluent suburb like Libertyville. Just comparing the percentages of single family households and parents with four year college degrees and you can see quickly how opportunity is limited without a little extra help somewhere along the line for even the brightest students in the inner city schools.

Why the ruffled feathers about a few mentions of non-mainstream prominent persons? Are you fearful that your kids will turn into Che Guevara, Hugo Chavez or something? The thing you are complaining about is far from being some sort of liberal indoctrination. It's merely providing some kids a way to find an alternative role model vs what everyone in the past has been shovel fed to believe the are only people worth admiring in society.

Pedro B, throwing more money (past a certain point) may keep poor teachers from moving on.

Pedro, I make my conclusions about facts. The worst elementary schools in this state spends thousands more per student than District 70 Libertyville, which is considered one of the best Elementary districts in the state. SO - money has nothing to do with quality of education otherwise inner city "poor" schools would be the best in this state. Schools should stick to reading, writing, and math, social indoctrination is why the US doesn't even rank in the top 20 best educated countries. Other countries concentrate on actually educating their children, not on social indoctronation like our government run school system does.

Donny-

Again, you walk through the forest but miss some of the trees.

Schools *should* primarily focus on the subjects, but your perspective is more akin to someone not particularly aware of what's involved in the educational process. It's almost a 'tea party' or 'one size fits all' approach to education, which unfortunately doesn't work in the real world. This is not to imply that inner city districts who are spending exorbitant amounts on their students cannot be reformed by spending less, but it's obvious that the societal problems those kids have to deal with on a daily basis will likely require more than a 1950s mentality of education to get these kids to where they need to be.
I will also correct you on your mistaken assumption that the U.S. is not included in the top 20 'best education countries'. First, you need to understand that what factors go into the measurements can move a country far up or quite far down on that list. In fact, a simple search at wikipedia would enlighten you to how the HDI (human development index) is measured. The U.S. was previously rated lower but now, based on more current methods, ranks fourth. I'm of the opinion that our disparity of wealth/total numbers of students in failing inner city schools should probably lower our current ranking however. It's a little too generous. Links for reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

You are right, administrators (superintendents, principals, VP of finance, Director of pupil services) are not part of the union, but they may as well be. They are paid even more lavishly and also belong to the Teachers' retirement system and enjoy the same or better benefits than teachers. Only in a corrupt educational system will you find two principals, a superintendent, Director of finance and Director of Pupil services for only 620 students. Let's not forget the prior superintendent that is on retainer for his services because the current sup can't handle all the work!

Sully - I coud care less what you feel about me and my kids. Here you moron, two links to the Baltimore Administrators union and the NYC Administrators union (CSA). You will notice that they are connected the AFL-CIO. During this Christmas season I am thankful that you are not in any way shape or form in my life as a brother, father, son, or even cousin. Please do every American a favor and surrender your voting rights.
http://www.psasa.org/
http://www.csa-nyc.org/

Click "about CSA" and then get back to me...

Deadcatbounce - Respectfully disagree, administrators are union members.
http://www.csa-nyc.org/about-csa

... and this is another theme pushed in the Expectations of Excellence. They mention the need to correct some of thinking that students might get at home so they can open their mind to the right message.

You see, Donny. You don't think straight (even though you've been right on everything you've said, and Sully's been demonstrably wrong). You're backward, and the Sullys of the world need to use the public education system to deprogram your corrupted children and get their minds right.

Apparently their embracing of "cultural diversity" doesn't include embracing your culture.

LFHS Grad 2010,
Are you still there? You see how the politics of personal detruction work? Not all people and opinoins are treated with equal respect.

Where is this classroom with 50 kids? Also, a larger class size can work if all the kids are at the same level and there are no learning or behavior issues. Since schools don't like to track, this is difficult to do. A flipped learning experience could be beneficial to all, with slower students receiving more individualized attention in the classroom and the brighter students going at a faster pace. This could possibly solve problem of large class size.

Sully, all my kids teachers enjoy the support from my wife and I. Anybody and everybody, is a moron if they think more money will solve what ills government run education.

Moron, a stupid or foolish person. Sully you said that administrators don't have unions, they do. if you hold that opinion that administrators DON'T have unions that makes one a moron.

I too as well David. I get the shirts, they are worn by morons.

Size of 42 that was quickly split up. What is the perfect class size for school? My son is in a class of 33 right now. I have no problem with it, but then again it is an A/P class and I would expect those kids to be sufficiently motivated that a class size of even 40-50 would be fine. Depends on what level of kids you are teaching. I've always thought more resources should be directed to spec Ed and kids with learning issues. The more intelligent students are perfect for steering into online learning where they can have an even better educational experience along with going at a faster pace. If my nephew and his classmates learned A/P calculus on line, why can't more A/P courses be structured that way.

I am really not sure what make a large size classroom... more than 30 maybe? In the 1950's and 1960's 40 plus kids in a class was the norm. I have pictures of my great-grandparents grade school classrooms from the 1920's and you can see two teachers with multiple grades with 130 plus kids...

DCB-

In no way should an online resource be used as a primary tool for mathematics when good quality teachers are available for face to face instruction. It's definitely better suited for supplementary material or review purposes, especially for something as intricate as AP Calc. [Several north shore h.s. districts are including Khan in their syllabuses, FWIW.] Having a proper instructor who can be immediately consulted on the spot is irreplaceable IME.

You gave no reason for using online resources as a primary tool. There are plenty of fantastic teachers online, why not use them. My son only had two good math teachers out of his four years of HS. Two were just awful! The technology is out there for online learning, you sound like a Luddite Pedro

The Administrators have their own unions, get it? I never said they are part of the teachers unions, get it? My post was very specific, teachers, administrators, maintenance workers are in unions, period. Get it? Here is exhibit A, one of the largest School Administrators union in the country in New York city, http://www.csa-nyc.org/about-csa - I have to "re-reach" because the world is full of people like yourself that when presented with the above FACTS can't admit said FACTS then change their opinion and move on intelligently. I teach my five kids to spot morons, to think critically, question opinions, gather facts, and discriminate facts from opinions. Someone that is not willing to acknowledge truth and facts is not worthy of respect. I have no problem disagreeing with anybody on opinion, that is a beautiful thing, that is one component that makes our country great. It's not me calling you a moron that makes you a moron, its your own works and ignorance of the facts. Good luck Sully.

Yes Sully, I do sit around the dinner table and re-teach much of the drivel he is taught, but then again he sees it as drivel too.  I couldn't say the following any better than David Mamet. ... education he said, was an elaborate scheme to deprive young people of their freedom of thought. He compared four years of college to a lab experiment in which a rat is trained to pull a lever for a pellet of food. A student recites some bit of received and unexamined wisdom—“Thomas Jefferson: slave owner, adulterer, pull the lever”—and is rewarded with his pellet: a grade, a degree, and ultimately a lifelong membership in a tribe of people educated to see the world in the same way.

“If we identify every interaction as having a victim and an oppressor, and we get a pellet when we find the victims, we’re training ourselves not to see cause and effect,” he said. Wasn’t there, he went on, a “much more interesting .  .  . view of the world in which not everything can be reduced to victim and oppressor?”
and this victim and oppressor view of the world all starts in the grade schools.   

This is why our schools are in such a mess. Boy disciplined in TN for waving around pizza slice shaped like a gun. Now sits alone at lunch! http://www.wkrn.com/story/16325409/gun-shaped-pizza-slice
Yes Sully, these people are fools!

I missed this part of the story. ... Taylor said the school system has made it clear that if her son eats his pizza into the shape of a gun again and there is a similar occurrence, he will be suspended.
This Taylor and other involved administrator jack wagons should all be fired.

I would modify the "burnt out" categorization to "improperly incentivized", if I can be allowed to make up phrases. I think more teachers would stay engaged if they could get recognized and rewarded for coming up with better ways of teaching, and if they weren't all on the same conveyer belt to retirement. That would involved competition and individual rewards, something the unions will fight tooth and nail.

What incentives would you give someone who is burnt out? Maybe the principal should go to each teacher and pat them on the back everyday. The average already get about $50 per classroom hour, $100 per classroom hour for the top bracket. At $100 per hour it is hard not to go to work when you know you can not get fired unless you do something really stupid.

As much as I dislike much of what the unions do (and their 1%er union boss), they do have a legitimate issue with individual rewards. How do you accurately measure the value of a teacher? Did the students perform better or worse because of the teacher or some other reason like tutors, drugs, home environment, ...

I'm currently reading Steve Jobs biography and the thing is that Jobs would have been drugged and/or thrown into Juvenile hall if he was going to our schools today

You sound like someone who would like to see school choice happen, which I think would be a great idea. Just think if the government monopoly of schools ended, we could decide ourselves what type of education suits our children. I know many parents especially with special Ed kids would be thrilled. It's a travesty how Kids with learning disabilities are handled in the schools.

@Deadcat - I for one would be pleased if children with learning disabilities would get a voucher for the average cost of educating a child and leave the system. Then, the parent would need to foot the bill between the average and the actual cost. They would realize how generous the community is in supporting disabled children, often at the cost of educating their own children.

All of the specialized resources that are focused on challenged children could then be redeployed the average and gifted children would benefit.

Vouchers have proven to improve the existing school systems. Check out Milwaukee where I think it started. They now have more children in public school than ever and the students are performing better.

Leave the system, yes their are other existing schools already and vouchers would encourage new schools. Yes, the alternative schools are not always better and certainly not better for every student.

For Ima to suggest that vouchers for special students should be the same amount as regular students does not seem helpful except to show the difference in current support verses what is needed. I had a neighbor who moved to Wilmette so her learning disabled son would get the "INCREDIBLY generous" education that NT provides. School boards often debate over how to handle special ed and how much support to give to it, but they are also threatened with expensive lawsuits by parents so they take the cheaper way out and sometimes the courts decide the minimum of what the school board needs to do. This is not a simple issue.

Vouchers will NEVER happen as long as schools are operated with union teachers and union administrators.

Ima Golfer- that is a most ignorant statement. Parents have to pay for their special needs children to get an appropriate education? How "generous" the community is being? Special Ed. funding is separate from general ed. These children are not taking any money away from your precious child. These kids are just as entitled to an appropriate education as anyone else. I'm so sorry if the law regarding Special Ed. kids offends you, but that's the way it is- thankfully.

Let's be honest here, it costs a lot more to educate a child with learning disabilities than an average or gifted child.  Kids with learning disabilities need a lot more one-on-one attention.   High-aptitude students are just a lot easier to teach.  I'm all for directing more resources to kids with special needs. A kid with dyslexia needs the attention and resources that go along with it.  At the same time, technology can make a big difference in cost savings  for the average and gifted student.    Online learning feedback loop is better, you know quickly whether you are doing well, just barely keeping up, or falling behind.  Just to prove I'm not bias, I have a bright kid, average and one that struggled.   The first two just didn't need the manpower resources that I wish the one that struggled would have gotten.    

Deadcatbounce, I agree with both the need to fund education to the learning disabled at a higher level than average and the need for more computer based training with teacher support.

What level to fund the learning disabled will always be tricky on several levels.

What tiny fraction of the $69.9 billion that the United States Department of Education spends each year would be needed to create on-line textbooks and computer based training for K-12? But no, US school districts combined spend billions each year on new books.

Agreed, the IPAD has opened up the world for many autistic Individuals that couldn't be reached and it is amazing.

Many states have Administrators Unions, Illinois is not one of them, but they do have "organizations." Here is a link to one of the largest school administrators union in the US.
http://www.csa-nyc.org/about-csa
I like to maintain a very wide view of the human condition, that's why I get my news from numerous sources and look at what other parts of the country are doing.

Taxpayers are not paying anymore out of their pocket for Special Education kids. SPED kids are still school students with just as much right to appropriate education as their general ed. peers. And the truth is, with inclusion more and more the norm, SPED kids are in all the same classes as gen. ed. kids. Classes that are co-taught (one reg. ed. teacher and one SPED teacher) have benefits for all the students, as there are two instructors in a class rather than one, and all the students can receive extra adult attention, not just the SPED ones.

"Taxpayers are not paying anymore out of their pocket for Special Education kids." OK, it must be the non-taxpayers who pay the salaries of the extra SPED teacher.

Does anyone object to paying something extra for Special Education kids? Remember there are legal rulings for this, so we have to pay something extra.

The private sector will never supply solutions, the teacher and administration unions will see to that. Unions are in place to secure health benefits, pensions, and work schedules that you never see in the private sector. They are there to defend useless teachers and deflect charges during student abuse lawsuits. Unions are in education to empower the state and make it difficult for individuals that seek a sound quality education both for regular and special needs kids alike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7O7C25U73w

"Why are certain individuals ganging up on the children with special needs?"

That's beautiful! I love it! That road you've taken is so low you're going to need scuba gear.

... and the liberal mantra - "working for the good of society" ... killed more people in the last century than all the wars put together. It seems those Utopian omelets take an awful lot of eggs.

And every parent believes that only the best is good enough for their children. My wife is always fighting to get a disproportionate share of the resources share of the resources allocated to our kids. The gifted families are doing the same and the disabled families are in there as well.

School administrators are eager to hang onto their grossly bloated salaries so in order to please everyone they continue to spend. So, we are in an upward spending spiral and there is no end in sight.

Self reliance, hard work, and the liberty to do what is best for ones family is what America is about. Any and all Americans can find a great education no matter the age, economic standing, disability, if you choose to make it a priority in your life. People of liberal persuasion or philosophy tend to rely on others to provide something (in this case education) - or feel there are people that can't achieve something (in this case an effective education) when the reality is, everything is there for the taking. If you work hard, take a few risks, have a bit of luck, remember luck happens when preparation meets opportunity, good things will happen and many rewards will fill your life.

Donny, it must be great to go through life with one's head stuck in the posterior region.

Yes I believe a black kid who is born in a poverty can make a life for himself just like GWB. Every American is on equal footing and I'll tell you why... My father moved in taxi cabs every few months on the south side of Chicago when he was a kid because his single mom could not pay rent on time and had an alcoholic father that beat him and his siblings. Food and tuition for private schools were his moms, my grandmothers priority. My father was cold and hungry, his paper route money went to his mother for food. He even bought a string of lights one year for his mom because they could not even afford a Christmas tree, paying the heat bill was the priority, education was the priority. He had no television. In college, he worked two jobs sometimes 16 hours a day plus class time achieving a BS Economics degree. He then was forced into the armed forces because of a low draft number. You see he didn't want to get his head blown off in Vietnam so he attended officers school so he would have some say where he was headed. He retuned to the US broke and attended graduate school and achieved a Masters degree. My mom worked nights at a factory, I can still remember my father waking me up as a small child of 4 in the middle of the night to go pick up mom from work. I believe what I say because my family has lived what I say. All his siblings are rich successful business owners, my father worth millions today. So STFU, stop playing the pity card, stop playing the race card.

Didn't the last two Presidents prove that they are on an equal footing?

Donny, this is a classic right-wing response. "STFU, don't play the race card" What an extremely cultured individual you must be(!) <note sarcasm>.

Are you truly naive enough to think that poor, inner-city kids on such unequal footing have even remote chances of the success your father enjoyed(?)

We've already covered this, ad nauseum <sigh>.

Yes, throwing money at the problem is subject to diminishing returns. But to extend the argument to imply that it should cost just as much to educated inner city kids is a foolish belief that some folks in this thread seem to follow.

I was responding to the example you gave, thinly veiled as it was.

OK, didn't the last THREE presidents prove they are all on an equal footing?

Many a wealthy government representative was born from poverty.

Oh, I get it. I'm purposely being brief. I'll give a more thorough response when I get off the clock.

It's simple. His dad brainwashed him a la 'my way, or the highway'.

I'm guessing Donny's a Christian, only speaks English and has no people of color or other religions as friends.

Pedro,
What if that's true? What's the problem?

Hey Pedro, what's wrong with being a christian and telling your kids that they live by your rules or their are consequences? I'm not getting what is wrong with that?

I believe every America is capable of great things, I share this view with my conservative GOP, Libertarian, friends and family. I believe individuals can make choices to offer their children the best education. They are not victims to a poor education system, they are a product of their own poor choices. Liberals believe people are incapable of doing great things, they are victims, or have a disadvantage that, holds them back from succeeding. I understand circumstances very clearly, you make good choices to change those circumstances for the better. This is the United States of America you can do whatever you want to do, become whomever you want to become. My parents instilled this in me many years ago. Thank God, as I am Christian, they did. I am going to semi retire at 48, full retirement at 55, how? Because each step I take today will make it happen. Some government bureaucrat will not make it happen the government could care less about people, I will make it happen for me, for my quality of life. I speak two languages and have one close black friend. Were are friends because we share values of hard work, good choices, self reliance. Not because we want to de diverse. He overcame great obstacles to get where he is today, much like my father did. I understand Sully that people like you need to find victims in this world, have pity on them for their difficult completely random circumstances and turn them into mindless government loving lemmings.

Race card again Gary. It's about race. I got to where I am because I'm a white Christian. It has nothing to do with all the jobs I held as a kid or young adult that helped me get through college. It has nothing to do with the value I placed on my education knowing how important it would be to achieve that 200k per year in income I always wanted. It has nothing to do with the long hours I put in at the library because after all I really am an average student. nevermind that I worked two jobs so I could have a car that barely got me from point A to point B. I succeeded just because I'm white Christian.... blah blah blah...

Pedro I'm guessing your highway is paved with pot holes, because right now my is clear sailing paved with gold.

I understand you completely Sully.

Many people with IQ's of 70 go on to live successful productive lives. just look at Lambs Farm. Would you say all the people there are failures and require special help from the government. No, even Downs Syndrome citizens can lift themselves up use self reliance, earn a living and become a productive member of society. If I had Downs Syndrome and an IQ of 70 you could fine me at Lambs Farm or any other place working hard adding to society making it a better place. mom and Ead working long hours has nothing to do with a quality education, if a mom and dad value education in the home, the child will vale it too. If I had a mental disease I would over come that circumstance and seek treatment get proper medication and under close care under a qualified and talented physician, hence eliminating that circumstance.

My warped view and understanding has gotten me, my family, my extended family, neighbors, and many friends: financial security, happiness, health, luxuries well beyond what someone needs, safety, and peace. I can attribute all of the above to my education, at home, and in school, my faith, and the choices I have made each and every day along the way to better my circumstances. Everyone can do this, no matter what color of skin you have, no matter your age, no matter your financial situation, no matter your parents, no matter what your IQ is. Education in government run schools before the NEA came along used to teach critical thinking, instead today it's a scum pond for liberal indoctrination filled with how little Jonny feels not what little Johny needs to function in the real world. Strong parents produce strong students, strong productive Americans. The remaining students are left to be eaten by the liberal system, born only to live in their parents basement, maybe attend an Occupy Wall Street rally because someone along the way did not inspire them but instead made excuses for them, gave them reasons as to why they won't succeed. Slavery is still around today in the form of union run schools, it just comes in different forms so no one is the wiser. BTW, I think moron is a very effective word, it means one with a feeble mind. Christians use this word, atheists use this word, I'll pray for you that you can find strength and peace this Christmas season.

Hey Russ, the government funding a master's degree after 18 months of someone serving in Nam is a benefit that was certainly earned. Would you suggest these guys went over to Nam for no pay or benefits.

Russ, he got two things for his service in the United States Army, a regular pay check for two years while he was in the service and paid tuition after he returned. What is your point? I'm guessing you have no point...

I call this part of the compensation package and you are a fool if you see it otherwise. Come to nam and if you make it out alive and sane uncle sam will pay for your education. I wonder why there were so many draft dodgers with an offer like that!

Your health insurance that you get from your employer, is that Corporate assistance? I think you are confused on what government assistance is. It's a check for someone that does absolutely nothing for society except making babies that they choose not to support.

Do you not know the difference between a gratuitous benefit and an earned one? The education was a benefit that was earned, it was part of the compensation package. The education was earned with a service requirement. besides, college and graduate school were a lot more affordable back then, not like today.

HA HA HA. I'm praying right now for you.

Hey Donny- i say this in all sincerity. Go to H-ll.

So sad, I will pray that you find peace this Christmas Day.

This concept is explained fully in a book by Marvin O'Laskey called "The Tragedy of American Compassion". He exposes the history of government run charity, and shows how unconditional charity breeds dependence and resentment, while personal charity promotes community and responsibility.

... but exactly what are the limits on government resources? Clearly they are not limited by the taxes they bring in since we're spending 1.5 trillion more than we're taking in, with no intention of slowing down the spending pace. As long as government can sell bonds/treasuries, and as long as there is someone out there who believes that the next generation will be willing to pay high enough taxes to pay off those depts, then government can continue to spend.

I'll assume I'm talking to a well informed audience and skip everything in the middle.

Therefore our present federal fiscal policy depends on our ability to convince the rulers of communist China and any other major dept holders that we Americans are not only willing to enslave our own children with our dept, but that we are willing to teach them to accept their status as economic slaves and spend their lives working to pay off the dept we put on their shoulders.

I sure hope someone can convince me I have this wrong.

There is no clear federal fiscal policy. Fixing things is going to take a long time and will require a fiscal policy that reduces spending and increase revenue. It's called MATH and until the politicians stop the short sighted voting getting moves they attempt at every crisis, we are destined to constant economic crisis and mounting debt. Both parties have plenty of blame to share, and Representatives (like Dold) that pledge to never increase revenue are going to bankrupt us. We can't save enough to get out of this.
Locally, cutting overhead at the District levels (such as combining districts and ending sweetheart admin deals) would be a start. I'm against raising revenue at the District level until they have convinced me they have cut expenses and not at the classroom level. I'd rather combine the Park District with the Village and cut out all that overhead than cut teachers. My point is, the Village could combine services and save money overall for education. The various Districts (school, park, library, township) result in waste. Let's combine them. It's excess Government.

I am not aware of any cuts in federal spending. Has that happened?

Every sentence in that post needs a verbose response which doesn't work well in this forum so I'll just ask this question. As far as I can tell our federal government is being run exactly the way you want. If so, then please explain why things aren't getting better? If not, then let us know what else the federal government should do to improve our economy.

I guess you'll say we should raise taxes on the rich. How would that spur the economy?

Here's my governing philosophy condensed as tightly as I can make it.

A just government helps the individual defend their right to
life,
liberty,
and property.
Anything less is a dereliction of duty.
Anything more is an abuse of power.

The most effective killing machine every devised by man is a government with too much power. I'll take my chances with limited government.

Sully, let me get this straight, less government control and regulations leads to … “Endless water and air pollution, mergers and monopolies galore, and income disparity worse than what we already have. Not to mention elections sold to the highest bidder (pretty much what we have now, though). Political gridlock may be reduced, but don't kid yourself in thinking limited government will work in your favor. America would truly be a plutocracy/oligarchy that only works for the select few.” I have to say you present a wonderful example of a staw man. This is the problem with people on the left. They have an inability to engage in meaningful discussion on the failures of big government because they always resort to myths and straw man arguments to support their case and marginalize those they disagree with. Big Government keeps getting bigger, but I don’t see my life getting better, only the same or marginally worse. Sure, for those receiving government handouts and the crony capitalists, life is always improving, but how about for the rest of us not politically connected or receiving a handout? I’m always shocked on the number of people making a lot less than me and paying very little in taxes able to own an Iphone (I don’t), big screen TV (I don’t) and have a newer car, but zip in savings. Sully, explain that one to me.

I'll pray for your lost soul.

Yes, you are right Sully, those evil Koch brothers must be stopped. I'm glad we have people like George Soros to take them on. If the anti-union thing weren't enough, here are bigger and better reasons to stop the evil Kochs. They are trying to:

decriminalize drugs,
legalize gay marriage,
repeal the Patriot Act,
end the police state,
cut defense spending.
Wikipedia shows Koch Family Foundations supporting causes like:

CATO Institute
Reason Foundation
cancer research
ballet (because seriously: F@#K. THAT.) ...
Now, I don't know why the KOCH brothers want gay people to have the right to marry. Everybody knows marriage is for a man and a woman. Even Obama said that. Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve amirite? I haven't figured out the angle. Maybe it's like this:

legalize drugs
legalize gay marriage
sell drugs and oil to gays
????
PROFIT$$$
I don't know exactly how it would work, but we can all agree that they're evil.

Sully you forgot to mention the $20 million donation the Kochs made to the ACLU to fight the Bush administration over the PATRIOT Act. Browsing various accounts of the Kochs political spending over the years, that $20 million appears to be substantially more than the Kochs have contributed to all political candidates combined for at least the last 15 years. (Their gifts to the arts and other non-political charities exceeds what they've spent on politics many times over.)

Don't you know that once government starts spending on a specific program or agency, that program's funding can never be cut, no matter how poorly that agency is managed or how worthless the task may be.

Best posting here DBC.

To be honest the cut and paste is from "Reason.com". That evil libertarian website featured weekly on John Stossel. How did I lose credibility Pedro?

DCB - Au contraire, you have not lost any credibility. Pedro has not yet figured out that problems are solved by intelligent individuals - and not by the government collectivists that claim to "have our back."

Cut spending. Ron Paul 2012.

Actually Sully, you are the one bringing up the Evil Koch brothers, I'm just printing some facts. Do you have a blind faith in George Soros? Please, we all want to know?

That's good. I could give a zillion websites on Soros and his cronyism, but then again when a lefty plays the game, it's for the good of the country, but for libertarians like the Koch bros, it's simply evil. Again Sully, why do you keep bringing up the Koch bros and not people like George Soros or Jeffrey Immelt?

Nice DCB And RC. Sully, I'm still praying. :)

If you've ever been to the seedier parts of Baltimore/DC, you would quickly understand how well those kids of that social experiment actually did compared to an average cross section of their peers. Of course their are going to be some massive failures along the way with such a group of kids, given the extraordinary circumstances and phenomenally crappy home lives most of those kids had going into the program. A lot of what happened to those kids from birth to middle school had already severely affected their well being.

Dreamer profiles
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/local/seat-pleasant-following-the-dreamers/?id=daronerobinson

This isn't rocket science, nor should one make very general conclusions based on results of such a social experiment, a la 'throwing more money at disadvantaged kids doesn't give results'.

Smart choices, personal responsibility, and a great education start at home. Nice link DBC I had fun reading all three parts.

Maybe it’s time to not just have a school lunch program, but breakfast, the after school activities and dinner. That way three goals are met: staving off hunger, fighting childhood obesity, and increasing participation in after-school programs. Why don’t we just turn the schools into state funded orphanages since direct support to vulnerable families is just not working. Win, win for the state as it gets more control over the kids and gets to hire more employees to run these orphanages and for the families as they no longer have to hassle with raising their kids and will have more money to spend on gym shoes. Remember all … any government that has the power to feed its people by definition has the power to one day starve them

You're ability to infer/reason is suspect, to say the least.

There are plenty of reasons why the teacher might opt to shop @ whole paycheck. The one I believe is most relevant is the time factor. He/She is factoring in the convenience vs having to run those errands on her own time after the school day is over. If the person commutes like a massive proportion of the Bay area educators do, that makes even more sense to buy near the school.

You are also silly to assume that in San Francisco, $668 goes very far for a family of four. Apparently you haven't traveled much, or are aware of the differences in cost of living.

It's almost as though you & Donny are still living in the 1950s....

The Whole paycheck in question may be in a nice neighborhood just outside the crappy one. More convenience for the teacher running the regular errand. This isn't rocket science. You've obviously never spent time in a major city like SF where things can run the gamut.
If you fed your family on $700 why are you griping about $668(?) If that sum includes any cash assistance, some of that money will go towards things like diapers & wipes too. $668 might not go far, YMMV.

Or it could be the closest store that has the proper "tasty organic snacks".

Exactly, that is why a great education starts at home. And no amount of money added to the school system can fix that.

Sully let me tell you how I really feel.The liberal philosophy is NOT something I want to indoctrinate my children with. The last thing I want to see is my children grow up becoming your typical whiny, spoiled, petty, entitled, crybaby, “victim,” liberal. I actually want them to be independent, strong, and open-minded, not some self-serving, self-righteous, 2-faced pseudointellectual preaching open-mindedness and tolerance, while stereotyping and generalizing against anyone who disagrees with them. You leftists are absolutely pathetic, and are no different than any religioius fanatic, or brainwashed collective-think sheep in N.Korea et al. In many ways, you are no different than the little hormonal girls you are trying to brainwash in the Girl Scouts. So go back to stroking your insecure ego. After all, you bear no responsibility for anything you do, huh? It’s all the fault of someone else. Dingbat.

Typical right wing tool/business owner. Never traveled, doesn't speak any language besides English, mistakenly thinks his 'bootstrap success' should be easily emulated by someone else regardless of today's climate. Could you possibly have a more myopic viewpoint? I'd say it's your ego that hits the door frame every time you leave a room.