Military Suicides and Election 2012
Military Suicides and Election 2012
This election season has provided many opportunities for comedians to share the biggest one liners supplied via our candidates. We had 15 debates between the republican candidates and our candidates for President. We heard them blather about the economy, our fiscal crisis, binders of women and the illustrious 47% comment. What we didn’t hear them touch on is the soldier; the cost of war borne by the less than one percent and what their promise is to make them whole again when they come home. As a military spouse and advocate, this is not just sad; it’s disturbing that we can’t get a national discussion started on the effects of war. Eleven years into the endless cycle of deployment we’re losing more soldiers to suicide than on the battlefield and not one candidate talked about it this election season. Sadly another local National Guard soldier took his life this past month. The weekend before he died he participated in Stand Down the Army’s 24 hour servicewide day of mandatory training aimed at combating record numbers of suicides among active-duty troops. He received counseling, a follow-up plan was in place and before he left to go back to school he had dinner with his parents. They too thought he was doing better.
I’ve heard military families are the new “marketing niche” of the decade. At first one thinks great, someone wants to help us. But after pealing away the pitch, I had to ask, exactly how do military families access this support? Are we to “shop” military support and throw it into our checkout cart and purchase it online?
As a non-profit owner assisting military families there are a ton of organizations trying to buy their market share of the military niche. I’m in contact with them daily and I have yet to have one organization ask simply, “what can we do to bridge the gap between civilians and military?” And by the way, as quick as they appear wanting to help, they’re gone. If it’s not the anniversary of 911, Veterans Day, Memorial Day or Labor Day (which isn’t even a military observance) they seldom ask “what can we do for you?”
To compound the need for assistance, military families rarely ask for help. By the time we figure out we need help, we’re so lost in the abyss of information provided by well meaning military support organizations that the moment to act has come and gone and 911 is our only option. 911 may be a close friend, mental health hotlines or medical support but it’s rarely Target or Walmart and it definitely isn’t the internet shopping cart.
Eleven years into war and a soldier “THINKS” of committing suicide every 36 hours. A soldier “ENDS” their life every 80 hours. The average age today of the soldier killing themselves is 18 – 34 and they have yet to deploy. More alarming is our female vets are three times as likely to commit suicide as their civilian peer. It’s not just the soldier who is in need of support; it’s the spouse who also suffers from PTSD and the fear and sacrifice of deployment ignites their symptoms; or the child with special needs who must now adapt to life without a parent. It’s the high school senior who has moved to five different schools since middle school and now faces the possibility that they won’t have the credit necessary to graduate because their state didn’t sign the Inter-State Compact on Educational Opportunity for Military Children.
It’s no longer “okay” for our elected officials and the public at large to skim over the issues facing our military. Our defense budget is two percent of GDP and has grown by nine percent yearly since 2001, yet our domestic budget has decreased steadily for that same timeframe. It will take two decades for Medicare and social security to reach two percent of GDP. Yet that’s what our candidates are talking about. As a society we can not continue to burden the VA without accepting responsibility and providing care for our soldiers and their families. It’s not enough to say “I’m sorry” or “thank you” anymore. The time is now for action.
President Eisenhower warned the American people in his farewell speech about the harm of the over funded military complex and the lack of balance that leads to a society’s inability to provide the basic programs for its free people. As feared, the words of Eisenhower have fallen on deaf ears and America will soon face what caused anxiety in Eisenhower – “that the power and greed of the military complex overshadows our place on this earth as a free people, a public that is now overwhelmed by political manipulation, not compromise; the power of a few have been paid for by the needs of the many and that democracy for the next generation is slowly becoming the “insolvent phantom of tomorrow.”
As relieved as we all are that this ugly election season is behind us, what it continues to unveil however, is there has been no serious discussion about the wars, the impact it has had on the less than one percent and their families that eleven years and trillions of dollars later has supplied no resemblance to peace.
America we need your help. During a recent conference call I listened to the marketing executive ask for ways to help gain the military market share and while I typically just listen – this time I decided to answer his question with a non-tangible. I started by stating what we truly need is advocacy, commitment and lastly a chance for a successful return to the civilian world. I’m not sure how his marketing plan plays into our need but here are some suggestions:
- Military families need corporations, civic and religious organizations to be educated on the needs of their employees who are serving, have served or are family members of those serving. Robust connections through their Employee Assistance Programs (EAP) for individuals dealing with PTSD, TBI, family issues arising from deployment and service would be a first step. The only way for our society to combat suicide or those in need is to educate ourselves on the signs, the behavior and lastly how to reach out and connect with that individual who is hurting. Seminars open to employee populations on Suicide Prevention and Awareness would not only help educate all but show those in need that they are not alone, that their employer cares and that someone has their “back”.
- Civilian medical professionals educated on the signs of PTSD, particularly in women who may experience atypical symptoms compared to their male counterpart. Just by adding an optional line to their registration forms asking if they belong to a military family can provide insight into a soldier or family member’s symptoms. It’s a starting place and military are more likely to access civilian medical professionals over military medical assistance for fear of risking their careers.
- Day care programs, pre-tax incentives or even educational savings programs to support day care programs. The spouse who now finds that they must return to work because their soldier is no longer able to work is caught between the needs of their child and their employer and day care is at the heart of the matter.
- Staffing personnel and community volunteers specifically recruiting our soldiers and spouses who have been discharged from the military; assistance in writing resumes – translating their military education into life skills that are marketable. The veteran generation of WWII was the stepping stone of innovation in 1945; today’s generation of heroes is Americas next great generation to introduce the “ideas” that will change the world. We can’t let that opportunity slip away from them or from us as a country.
- Volunteer Hours approved for projects to participate in military events, family days, or physically assist military families with household chores, home maintenance and other hardships that may impact a military family.
- School and civic leaders making the military family as important in their altruism campaigns as Relay for Life, Ron Santos Juvenile Diabetes walks, breast cancer and the list goes on. It can be as simple as a Wall of Heroes started at schools, businesses and local civic groups. A lasting and continued tribute to those who give it all.
None of the above fit into an online grocery cart but the marketing power of corporations and civic minded organizations that can leverage the above needs of the military family will be rewarded with the most committed, hard working and skilled workforce seen yet in this century.
There is no doubt that America and its citizens are forever indebted to our military. If we want to pay tribute to the fallen, it’s not in a moment of silence or tears; it’s in honoring their commitment matched only by giving back to those who have given the most. We are not a marketing “niche” we are people who’ve been called to honor the oath in serving this great nation.
Veteran’s Day is past, and while the soldier’s commitment continues forward, its time for America to start having the conversation on how to heal our veterans…today.
Dan Arenov
9:48 am on Saturday, November 17, 2012
".. binders of women and the illustrious 47% comment. "
".. the cost of war borne by the less than one percent .."
I'm not even reading the rest of this drivel after reading this last line.
Either his lady is implying that it's the poor who sign up, sacrifice and die for us in these foreign wars or she erred by citing these 'percentage' comments so close to each other. If she is implying that the poorest among us are the ones who volunteer for the military, she is wrong. Way wrong.
I'm not sure how this meme started, except to say that it is something that most liberals believe, and it does fit into their narrative. If you know liberals, they live by the narrative and make the pieces fit, whether there is truth to them, or not.
Our military is mostly made up with children of middle class citizens.
There was a survey conducted in 2010 that asked over 300,000 active duty and reservists about their political views and whether they thought the president was doing a good job. An overwhelming majority considered themselves conservatives and said that the president was not performing well.
Does that fit with any assertion that our military is made up of our poor?
The gist of this article is commendable but the premise of the military being made up of the poor is incorrect.
Danette Hayes
11:45 am on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Dan - as the author of this article, it's unfortunate you didn't read the rest. The gist of the article isn't political - however my assertion is that if our candidates aren't discussing the effects of war, then as a society we have to trickle UP the conversation. As a military spouse for over 23 years, I'm very familiar with the makeup of the military. Nothing in my article suggests who the military is - the age or their socio economic class. However what the article does point out is that the "cost" of war is being borne by our military families, who deal daily with the effects of TBI, PTSD, loss of job, loss of security etc.
As for your 2010 survey - there is a recent study by Lt. Col Jason Dempsey that suggests outside of our military officers the demographics in our military vote like everyone else - enlisted are more moderate and less conservative. Not that it has anything to do with the article. http://www.amazon.com/Our-Army-Soldiers-Civil-Military-Relations/dp/0691142254
Politics don't have any place in trying to grow awareness about suicide, PTSD or the multitude of issues facing our military or their families. What I do suggest however is that instead of relying on the government to take on an issue they don't do very well - we as a community come together to start helping our families. Would you agree?
Danette Hayes
12:05 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
PS - my statement about the cost of war being laid on the less than one percent has nothing to do with economics - less than one percent serve in the military - and that one percent is hurting. Not everyone has a safe ride home. I'm sorry if you took offense to my words because my intent was and is always to get the conversation started. When 91% of military families feel disconnected from the communities they live in, how best to reach out to the community and provide insight, grow awareness and start the conversation than through the many non-profits (my organization as well). FSB is made up of military spouses and headed by officers and enlistees. When our elected officials aren't embracing the conversation it's up to drive it...
Dan Arenov
9:46 am on Sunday, November 18, 2012
danette: ".. Nothing in my article suggests who the military is - the age or their socio economic class."
The 'cost of war being borne by the less than 1%'? isn't a comment on their supposed socio economic class?
During the election cycle, we heard a lot about "the 47%" (which you also reference here..along with 'binders full of women'), so excuse me for jumping the shark and making a connection to the numbers you used here.
I'm a veteran and have kids who are also veterans and am well aware of the issue of suicides in the military, especially since the major news networks stopped talking about war, which by my estimation happened around January of 2009.
Maybe that has had an impact on suicides? You know, when you are making huge sacrifices overseas and find out that they don't talk about the war efforts in the newspapers or on tv anymore...you might become a little disillusioned?
Did you notice that, Danette? Back in 2007 and 2008, there were constant references to the sacrifice our soldiers were making. on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN... every death was treated with the gravity that it deserves...Cindy Sheehan was on every talk show, etc.
Then in 2009, something happened. The major news networks stopped talking about Afghanistan. Stopped talking about our people dying. Even though the death rate was going UP. Why is that?
The media can fawn over soldiers and the media can ignore soldiers. Which approach seems to be better for our men and women overseas?
Danette Hayes
10:32 am on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Dan - again my statement about the 1% is because that's the percentage of people who serve in the military - 1% of our population. I'm not sure the media is "disguising" the issues impacting the military and their families and you chide me on referencing politics when you ask if January 2009 is when it all changed. Here's the deal - our society as a whole has trouble discussing mental illness. Add into the mix, mental illness impacting our military due to deployments etc and the silence is more astounding. However, not all military suicides are due to combat. Right now the largest percentage of military killing themselves haven't even deployed yet. They are 17 - 21 year olds who because of service, being away from home or broken relationships can't find the will to carry through. That's not just an issue impacting military families, it's an issue impacting society as a whole. When 14 year olds are being bullied to death, that's societies issue. The next big group are family members of military. I care about this issue because I've lost friends to suicide, good service members and focusing on the media and when they stopped reporting deaths daily isn't going to solve the issue.
Abigail
1:03 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
The article states: "We had 15 debates between the republican candidates and our candidates for President."
Abigail: Like Dan, you lost me--but with the above statement. I read it as "them" (republicans, with a little "r" as though they are nothing) vs "us" (Democrats). At that point, I stopped reading your article. Too bad, too, because I have ancestors who have served this country in every war since the American Revolution and have family members serving now. My brother and my cousin both spent 25+ years in the U.S. military. I am very concerned about the plight of those who serve, but I will pass up the rest of your article.
Maybe next time you should consider writing your article with less political bias. The only conversation you're starting is one that focuses on your liberal arrogance.
Danette Hayes
1:20 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Abigail - I'm sorry if my lead into "not having the important discussion about military suicides, PTSD, TBI etc" met with your disapproval. As a military spouse whose husband is still serving, I'm ANGRY that the topic of our military entered no debate, be it republican or democrat and if you're offended you should be but not by my article which doesn't take a side either way - both parties have disengaged from the conversation. We're losing too many of our soldiers to suicide. If you took the time to read the rest of the article, I think you'll find some very easy ways to show your concern about the "plight" of those who serve. I hope you'll join me and others in getting the conversation started.
Danette Hayes
1:26 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Thank you Connor but no fear, even the negative comments get the conversation started. It's going to take a lot more than a few misguided reads to stop our momentum. We have a great program "The Boots Before You"...check us out and see if you're interested in sharing your military story or even someone you served with. Our Wall of Heroes is going live on Patch...as well as Facebook and the other social media outlets. I'm sorry about your friend, a father (close friend) of an ILNG soldier also lost his son last month. His dad said that while his son struggled it truly wasn't the deployment so much as it was "the fact his best in the military wasn't good enough for civilian life." That's a story we're hearing too often. Thank you for your service and if you find some time to connect with a soldier or a family, we'd welcome your energy!
J.Lyn
2:15 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Danette, You have claimed no political bias...but in one of your opening sentences you state " republican candidates" vs. "our candidates" and that does infact belie a bias. I would be very careful in future writings to make sure to steer clear of all political references. As you have seen by the reaction of the two republicans, they are still smarting from their big loss and are blinded by anger to the point of stopping reading and /or giving credence to what you are trying to share. If you want your message to reach the largest audience possible you can not afford to have appx. 50 % of your potential readership stop because they can not see past their party's line. It's the sad fact of the matter. You are doing good works. I appreciate it and wish you much success.
John L
3:34 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Agreed J.Lyn.
Danette:
1. Whether this was mis-phrased, or you really meant "republican candidates" vs. "our candidates", you missed the boat as to getting discussion started about vets, and just got one started about politics. Remember, communications is the responsibility of the author.
2. I did read the whole thing, being a military brat of a father that served 23 years, 1 tour in Korea, and 2 tours in Nam, and feeling strongly about the subject matter. However, 4 screens of rant and statistics (while having to look up some of the acronyms) was work, and is book material, not internet style. On the internet, you have 15 seconds to get their attention, and 45 seconds to hold it, and rarely hold it beyound 1 page. You obviously did not achieve that. The only comments you got were off of the first paragraph. I do not say this as an attack, but rather some advice that might aid you in your obviously good and passionate cause. You are right to be angry, but to incur change, you have to get them fired up in a short period of time, then you can add facts and additional info in replies.
Please read the next comment before you reply.
John L
3:35 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
That being said....
I did find some of the article enlightening. It seems that "1%" is not enough to warrant the attention of politicians of either side trying to get votes from a society that is growing more toward "what's in it for me?". That is indeed shameful, considering that 100% of our nation benifits from the 1% who are doing the job of keeping them safe. We do need to do much more, and quickly. How can we help?
"During a recent conference call I listened to the marketing executive ask for ways to help gain the military market share.." So If I read this right, corporations are not trying to help, they are just trying to find a way to sell more to the vets? If so, that is a shame. Maybe they could donate a portion of their sales to vets. That might encourage the general public to put their items in a shopping cart that does not take money out of their pockets, but directs some of that money, that they are spending anyway, to a worthy cause.
Good luck with your efforts. It is a cause that needs our attention badly. I hope you will take my initial comments in the spirit in which they were given.
Danette Hayes
3:43 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
J.Lyn thank you for your feedback. I see your point. Maybe I am a liberal, because I read everything with an open mind but you're right, I can see how exposing some of the silliness was misconstrued. I mean no harm to either political party but I'm angry at all of them for not having this discussion. Great Lakes has an economic impact of over $1.8Billion to the northwest and north suburbs...that's huge leverage but I bet no one can say who those families are benefiting from Great Lakes. The recruits at the training base don't bring families. There are over 30,000 military families and retirees living in this area of the state and the likelihood of more than 10 families with a link to the military live within 3 block radiuses of each of us. When Blue Star Families share their survey with results showing that 91% of military families feel disconnected to the communities they live in, that's a sad state of affairs. I know the general population wants to help, they just don't know who "they" are. I won't sugar coat the reality but I will be more "correct" in how I frame the conversation going forward. Thank you
Danette Hayes
4:02 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
John - agreed. It is rather long...and my attempt at exposing "why" we're not having the discussion was poorly done. I appreciate your candor and the feedback and will do better with my next attempt.
Great suggestion on what marketing execs can do - donate a portion of their sales. A few organizations do that but unfortunately the only folks who know about it are military shoppers. LOL. As you probably are aware from living the life, military families aren't out for freebies or entitlement programs - they need advocacy, commitment that their contribution to the service will be matched by the employer, civic organization etc. It would be fantastic if some company could create a product that provides job security etc...we'd all love that even civilians would love that. What's happening today is organizations want access to "a customer base" as if we're free to share personal information etc. The intent is good, the premise however is still murky. So we offer them the opportunity to "hang in there with us" volunteer with us and you'll meet that "family" you want to help and then....nothing. Not always but mostly. That's why it's imperative to get and keep the conversation going about all the issues...not just the mental health issues.
Sandra Sims
5:23 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
If you all weren't reading this with an already huge chip on your shoulders regarding the "liberal media bias" you would understand that what she was saying was that the Republicans had 15 primary debates. And then OUR Presidential candidates (both of em) had 3 more. The Democrats didn't have primary debates. Comprehension is a skill. Can you not put your raging hatred of anyone who is not a Republican aside and think about the real problem? Guess not. Pity.
Abigail
6:10 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Considering the vitriol and hatred Republicans have to put up with from liberals in general, I'm sure you can understand our dislike for anything that smacks of bias. "Binders of women?" Danette knows exactly what Romney meant, but prefers to allude to it as though it was gender bias.
Sandra Sims, you need to work on your comprehension skills--the reason the Democrats didn't have any debates is because Obama was already the DNC's chosen candidate. In other elections, such as 2000, 2004 and 2008, the DNC had numerous debates. And I can bet the issue of military suicides was not brought up in any of those.
My suggestion to Danette is to keep the politics out of it in the future, otherwise you lose 50% of your readers. These 12 comments are about the way you presented the issue--no one is talking about the issue itself. Is that what you intended? I doubt it, but that's what you got.
Brian
11:42 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
This is a big problem...when people say they stop reading because they feel a bias against them or their politics. Even if that were the case, isn't it a good idea to read/listen to someone with an opposing view? See what their take is on an issue?
This article clearly isn't pandering left or right. Danette is opening our eyes to a major issue here in our country concerning the people who risk their lives for us. If she makes statements that sound liberal, so be it. Fox news panders to the right, that doesn't mean they don't report pertinent news and issues as well.
And Abigail, she (Danette) is referring to this election cycle...as she says in her opening line. Don't try to fuel the political debate. She also uses the binders and 47% to draw more attention to the fact that all of those things were fodder for comedians to shift our focus away from real issues. Don't read the article looking for reasons to fight...read it to hear her message about our soldiers killing themselves and what we need to do to help.
Carl Castrogiovanni
2:00 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
Sandra,
I read the whole thing, and it was indeed a partisan screed. That kind of writing won't help anyone's cause...
Danette Hayes
6:02 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
Carl - anyone's cause...? Shouldn't it be everyone's cause? Military suicides are not just the problem for the families they leave behind. When 91% of military families feel "disconnected" from their communities and 50% can't see beyond the truth of the words and the "cause" is supposed to be sugar coated in political correctness, it's no wonder the toll is rising.
Sandra Sims
6:42 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Gee, I would never have figured out that the Dems didn't have primary debates because they had Obama. Thanks for pointing that out. As usual, you have missed the point. Her statement that we had "15 debates between the republican candidates, and our presidential candidates" does NOT, as you imply mean that we had 15 debates between republicans and "us" meaning the democrat, Obama. Rather we had 15 debates between ALL republicans, and then more between "our" two final nominees. And debates in previous election cycles have no bearing on her essay. But thanks for confirming my impression of you as a professional victim, and thick as two short planks. . Boo hoo. Snort.
Abigail
7:09 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
I know this may be difficult for someone at your level, but please grow up.
J.Lyn
10:21 am on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Sandra...Thank you. You are correct. I was speed reading and read it wrong. Comprehension is important...this time I missed the boat. That being said...it is also the writers responsibility to clearly and concisely state their premise. Unfortunately,
Danette could have phrased several sentences with more precision. One can tell she is very emotional about the cause...and sometimes that has an impact on writing skill. And...you are right about another thing. Abigail is a professional victim.
She too is emotional about her cause...but the result is far worse than errors in writing skill. Her's is an error in comprehension of reality.
Danette Hayes
12:19 am on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Abigail - I was making fodder out of the silliness of the election cycle. As hard as it may be to believe, life is bigger than Obama or Romney. Such as military suicide, homelessness amongst vets and their families. Can you tell me if you live within 3 blocks of a military family? Chances are likely, you do. Are they active Army or National Guard? Are you aware that our unemployment rate for soldiers/military is almost double the national average? Did you know that in the northwest suburbs alone there are roughly 22,000 children living with a parent deployed? Again my first paragraph was to show that all the stuff our candidates, republican or democrat felt important escapes what's truly important to me,,,,healing our veterans paying back to those who gave so much. Either you have something to say about the issue or you don't. Which is it?
Dan Arenov
9:54 am on Sunday, November 18, 2012
This is definitely an important issue. We should always be looking to help our veterans get back on their feet and help those left behind.
Danette speaks from experience with her husband deployed. Along with the soldiers who make sacrifices for us, so do military families. Thank you for your contribution, Danette.
John L
11:19 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Dannette,
A few questions for you, since you know more about this than we do. How does the military rate of suicide compare to the civilian rate of that same age group (18-34)? Also, you mentioned that there is a high rate of suicide even among those who do not deploy? Do you know what causes that?
Danette Hayes
7:07 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
John L - Great questions. According to the DoD this week the Army surprassed their suicide numbers for last year already. From their report "During the first nine months of 2012, there were 247 suspected suicides among Army active- and reserve-duty personnel, compared to 222 military deaths among active and reserve personnel from “hostile causes” as of Sept. 28". Unfortunately only the Army provides monthly totals so we're just getting a total view of 2011 as we end 2012.
The national suicide rate is around 11.9 per 100,000. The military rate is 22.9 per 100,000. Nationally 38,000 people killed themselves in 2010 (AFSP statistics).
Lastly, the age group that hasn't been deployed yet that is ending their lives so early - the link seems to be resiliency. A lot of these kids are experiencing life away from home for the first time, they have romantic relationships that end, fear of deployment etc...The Acting Director of the National Guard stated last winter that the trend seems to be related to resiliency. (continued)
Danette Hayes
7:12 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
John (continued) -
Most alarming are these statistics from the VA shared in the AFSP Policy Report 2012.. "According to the VA, veterans composed 20% of these suicides with approximately 18 veterans dying by suicide daily; five of whom were enrolled under VA care. Three of five veterans enrolled in VA care who died by suicide were patients with a known mental health condition. On a related note of equal concern is the fact that approximately 950 veterans under VA care attempted suicide each month between October 2008 and December 2010."
Since each state has a different method of tracking suicide its difficult to provide exact science. But the military also must investigate each death outside of combat so it can take a few months to have confirmed numbers.
Mental illness is a silent disease in our country...its time we started talking about it. There is no need for anyone, soldier, family, civilian to suffer alone.
Sandy Reeves
6:16 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Danette - You have experienced military life for many years. You know what you are talking about. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. You're arguing about suicide with a well respected woman.
Procrustes' Foil
4:56 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
Erica, I share your opinion. The vitriol heaped upon Danette is appalling. Her article was meant to inform us about the grave difficulties facing returning military personnel - many of whom have been deployed several times. The Washington Monthly and The Atlantic have reported on these problems. These petty critics should be ashamed of themselves.
Danette Hayes
7:36 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
Erica thank you for reading and commenting. I appreciate your taking the time to get informed. As much as I also appreciate your support for the article, I'm okay with the negative comments in so much that it gets people talking. If nothing else - at least 5 of you read beyond the first paragraph and that's success. Politics isn't for the thin skinned and although my article wasn't mean to be political - some people will only read what they want to read - regardless if my words state otherwise. It's a sad fact of who we've become. The Army has a saying, in fact my husband reminds me quite often "Embrace the Suck." It's look forward not back and therefore, bring it on.
Gary
10:34 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
A serious discussion of military suicides would not have mentioned "binders full of women" at the beginning.
Danette,
Here's the score. Republicans just went through a couple of years where the MSM demonized, insulted, and lied about us in every way they could. We had to put up with that during the political campaign because we know the game isn't fair, but we just live with it.
Well, the campaign is over. We are really pretty sick of having to take abuse while being told we're the intolerant ones who would be accepted into decent society if only we would open our hearts and minds and embrace all the people giving us crap. In short, we expect the demonization to stop for a while. ...and when we see anyone using the sound bites and catch phrases which were used as hammers against us during the election, well we just assume we know where you are coming from and shut it off.
It's that simple.
Carl Castrogiovanni
2:02 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
"Her article was meant to inform us about the grave difficulties facing returning military personnel "
She failed at that goal by taking the pasrtisan tack that she did...
jam
5:32 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
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Danette Hayes
10:50 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
Gary - It's not that simple but I'm beginning to see a pattern. If regular people don't look beyond the sound bytes provided by the 24 hour news cycle, we will continue to digress from the issues that truly matter. Case in point this paper. If the issue matters read beyond my point that seems to push your button and realize we're talking about the same thing.
Gary
11:26 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
You don't seem to be getting the message. We are not talking about anything at all because I will not be reading beyond the cheap shots at the beginning of your article.
Let's try this. You need to be considerate to all your potential readers and be sensitive to the kinds of things they might find offensive. You need to understand that everyone doesn't think like you, and you need to reach out to those people in order to bring them into your big tent so we can talk about issues that effect us all. Offending people simply drives them away and they'll never vote for you... oops... read your articles again if you don't give them something... oops... show them that you understand their concerns.
In fact, the more obnoxious and intransigent your opponent, like me right now, the more you should feel obligated to show me how much you like me, or I will call you names and go read other articles. In fact, in the future you will not be judged by your words or actions. You will be judged by the lies I tell about you, and you will be assumed guilty of every accusation I throw at you, and any response by you will be further proof of your guilt.
Those are the rules right now. If you don't like this system, then feel free to change it. I tried and failed.
That's what we're talking about. Leave out the cheap shots next time.
Sandy Reeves
11:39 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
Gary - OMG. You and only you want to set up the "rules" and squash Danette right to free speech. You are entitled to your opinion as well as Danette is to hers.
Gary
12:00 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
No. I'm just trying to let her know that some of us are little edgy right now on the political stuff by using some political satire of my own. I guess you didn't get that part of it. Carry on.
Danette Hayes
12:41 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Gary - is this a game to you? You can junk up the internet blasting my paper all you want - but there is no game here on my part. I did not offend anyone, if you're offended by my sharing the obvious about the blindness of the people on the issues that really matter and don't see that my mockery of the fodder is your same outrage then move on. I am moving on. And the beauty of the ability to move on means you're alive, you get the chance to move on. As an advocate for military families and as military spouse I don't get the luxury to sit and worry about political parties. If 50% of the American public can't take on the issue of military suicide, PTSD, TBI, homelessness, unemployment because their feelings are hurt by my statement of the obvious then chances are they aren't interested to begin with. And if they do care or are interested, then they'll find a way to move beyond their politics and work towards something that is good, gives back and doesn't care who you voted for! And lastly, I'm not running for office so once again if this is a game to you...I'm not playing.
Gary
2:07 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Danette,
Dan is trying to tell you that someone else is playing political games with this issue, and unlike me they are playing for real, and the consequences are disastrous.
Why did the media stop covering the wars in January 2009?
Why did they report the "body count" up until January 2009?
Why did they demonize our soldiers up until then?
Why did anti-war protests stop in January 2009?
Part of the problem lies in the answers to those questions.
Dan Arenov
3:57 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Gary: "..Why did the media stop covering the wars in January 2009?
Why did they report the "body count" up until January 2009?
Why did they demonize our soldiers up until then?
Why did anti-war protests stop in January 2009?"
Gary, none are so blind as those who refuse to see.
As a veteran, nothing bothers me as much as people who pander to the military. The legacy media have totally 'outed' themselves as partisans who couldn't care less about the men and women in our military. We have both offered anecdotal evidence of this... but you can't force people to think. You can't force them to have an open mind about such things.
And regarding the media's total avoidance of combat actions after January 2009, many folks can't see this because they watch e.g., Brian Williams or Diane Sawyer every night...when you see someone or something every day, sometimes you are the last one to notice nuanced change...can't see the forest for the trees.
Dan Arenov
11:29 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
I believe that more members of our military are suicidal because the media in this country is paying so little attention to those who are serving and getting killed in these foreign wars.
As a veteran who knows many other veterans, just knowing that people are concerned about you helps.
I have seen very little tv news coverage of e.g., Afghanistan, since 2009 even though we sent more soldiers there, even though more of them have gotten killed since that time. Why is that? Do they not matter anymore?
Why does the media not interview the parents of dead soldiers anymore?
Do you remember how, back in 2005, 2006, 2007 & 2008 that many tv networks had a running tally of the deaths in these wars that they put up on their screens nightly?
Why don't they do that anymore?
Our men and women overseas are fighting in anonymity... the news media doesn't care anymore. This HAS to effect their mental stability.
Danette Hayes
12:49 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Dan - we're losing more soldiers to SUICIDE right now than we are in combat therefore the good news is the running total isn't needed. Suicide can't be confirmed right away and when it is, the news is reporting it. I'm not sure what you're reading or seeing to the contrary and I can't say why it feels like less coverage to you. Eleven year of war and the American public seems to have moved on. That's why we're trying to "Shine the Light" on our soldiers, give a face to the names of our neighbors and tell their story. You're right, our service members need to know they are appreciated, and taking the time to say Thank You goes a long way. But that's just the tip of the iceburg so to speak. Sending them off to war at times can be the easiest part of the journey, it's bringing them home and helping them find their way back into civilian life is what's causing the problem. I'm not sure how the media can help that cause except to help military organizations share their stories.
Dan Arenov
1:07 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Eleven years of war and the MEDIA has moved on, and started doing so in January 2009.
Don't you find it at least a little bit peculiar how Cindy Sheehan was on the news almost every day until Jaunuary 2009? Why is that? Did the death of her son not mean anything anymore?
The media is not sharing any more stories of soldiers and sacrifice and deaths by roadside bombs, etc. The media doesn't feel that these stories are helping the people they want to help, so they avoid them.
Danette Hayes
3:46 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Dan - Cindy Sheehan has been running for political office...that's why she isn't on the news anymore. She's not the activist she once was, in fact she ran as Vice President in the Peace and Freedom party with Roseanne Barr as the Presidential nomination.
june shellene
1:37 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Danette,
Thank you for your blog. Did you ever listen to Ron Paul's speeches? He is the only one who pointed the finger at the military industrial complex and the destruction it has caused to thousands of Americans. His campaign contributions from the military outpaced all the republican presidential candidates and Obama's put together. Thousands of young people showed up at campuses all over the country, where Romney would attract only a few hundred. His farewell speech to congress has garnered more attention than most presidents' farewell speeches. I guess now that he's gone, it's safe for the media to pay attention to what he has to say. I recommend every American listen to his farewell speech. Sad to say, the military industrial complex rules us all and he never had a chance...as the complex also rules the media, who continually dismissed him as too "radical," and never covered his stunning turn outs during his campaign. He was the only man willing to stand up to the insanity of our addiction to war and our communal willingness to sacrifice our young, our brave, our disciplined people, and to wreak havoc and murder on innocent people globally. But the media and his own party turned their backs on him, brain dead liberals and conservatives alike wouldn't listen to what he had to say. This fact alone tells me that we as a nation, as a people, are doomed.
Abigail
3:50 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Thank you Dan and Gary for your comments. You put into words what I was unable to get across.
Danette Hayes
5:25 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Dan, Gary and Abigail - the article is about military suicides. Gary there's no need to keep commenting if you don't want to read the article and discuss the points I make in the rest of the story. Abigail you're free to post and comment but this article is about military suicides. The two of you stated you didn't read beyond the first paragraph - therefore if you're not going to comment on the topic - military suicides move on. Everyone but the three of you seem to understand that. If you want to discuss ruffled feathers, political correctness or such perhaps you should start your own blog. This blog is about issues impacting the military.
Danette Hayes
5:26 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
June - I have listened to Ron Paul and he states some very accurate facts. I think Eisenhower was also wise to the ways of the military complex. This blog however isn't supposed to be political. I welcome your comments or Ron Paul's on suicide. Since he's a doctor he probably adds a lot of value to the conversation. Thanks for posting.
Dan Arenov
9:29 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
well Danette, i'm giving you reasons why i feel that suicides are on the rise in the military and you refuse to engage in conversation about it, even though i'm also a veteran and may also have some insight on this.
And this is not a 'blog'. This is a post on Patch. period. If you want to start a blog somewhere, go for it. And be prepared to encounter people who agree in principle on the issues you bring up, but don't agree with you on the problems around the issues.. you may need to get a little tougher skin before going that route, though.
Danette Hayes
10:13 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
dan - I've responded to your posts. And this is a blog - under Local Voices. I've responded to each contrary opinion with a post but there is no data to support your assertion that suicides are on the increase because of the media not giving constant coverage to the war. Out of the 950 veterans who received care from the VA for their depression, suicidal thoughts, did not mention the media.
Now if you are asserting that the media isn't providing enough attention to Military Suicides then that's the point of the paper I've written that you disagree with. So I'm not sure how much longer to swim in this fish bowl with you until one of us needs to come up for air.
I can't wait for the media to get more involved in highlighting the epidemic of military suicide - however, it's not a cure. As a veteran you know how much Thank You means to most...but for the service member who is on the verge of committing suicide, Thank You isn't enough.
If you'd like to discuss how the media can get more involved - great, let's start there. Current state is according to you, they're not reporting on the war effort anymore.
What is the desired state you wish to achieve by getting the media more involved?
I look forward to your comments.
John L
10:58 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Danette: I would agree with Dan, at least partially, concerning the media issue. I know your focus is on the suicides, though your initial post covered a number of issues. I would bet that there is more than one cause for the rise in suicides, and the lack of general involvement and support for the military is one of them. I doubt that you are going to find corporate support for just the suicide issue alone. But if you can raise awareness for the plight of military personel in general, suicides can then be part of the band wagon. To get support, you need an emotional response. Patriotism is a powerfull positive emotional response, and will raise more support than the negative and depressing issue of suicide. Corporations will jump on the band wagon of patriotism. That band wagon can garner financial support, as well as give emotional support to those potential suicide victims, that feel "disconnected" and abandoned by the American people. Get the media involved again, and the band wagon becomes a steam roller, that will attract the media and corporate support both. Raise back up the issue of support for the military, and then that positive emotion will then include compassion for those who are suffering.
John L
11:28 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Dan: You said: "The media is not sharing any more stories of soldiers and sacrifice and deaths by roadside bombs, etc. The media doesn't feel that these stories are helping the people they want to help, so they avoid them."
I agree in part. There used to be pictures and bio's of each soldier killed, now there is barely a mention of "3 soldiers killed today". I disagree that the media is avoiding those stories because they don't feel they are helping anyone. They are avoiding the stories because they have become old subject matter (not my feeling, just reality), and do not raise the sensationalism reaction any more. If the media was all about helping people, a story about an affair with a general would not garner 10 times the coverage of the last 100 military killed overseas or the fact that the military suicide rate is double the civilian suicide rate (thank you Danette for that info). If we, as the public, show that we are interested in that subject matter (plight of the military, rather than scandal), then the more important media covereage will return, since the bottom line for the media is about ratings. Obviously, those people in this discussion ARE interested interested in the more important issue. We have to find a way to get our friends and neighbors involved again, and the media will follow the audience.
Danette Hayes
1:48 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
John I agree that the media isn't helping to build support for the issues impacting military suicides, families, homelessness etc. Involving the media in raising awareness is tantamount to helping grow the support - that's a given. I guess where I'm lost with Dan is in suggesting the lack of media attention is leading to the rise in suicides. I can't find anything to support that assertion.
We all agree that involving the media is important - hence this blog. The Boots Before you wants to recognize every soldiers and families story - and in sharing their story whether its positive, helpful concerning how they handled financial distress, unemployment, first deployment etc we will use the media to grow that support. Yes positive emotions such as Patriotism are a great way to get everyone involved...as a veteran Dan has a mountain of stories to share. But we also have to find common ground because there are so many similarities between civilian issues and military issues. The double edged sword with the media is to your point - if it doesn't ride to the sensationalism of the affair now consuming the media, how do we garner that level of interest. Clearly the fact the suicide rate for military is rising, already surpassing last years isn't getting the attention.