The high price of ignoring logic and facts

Another case in point shooting

Has anyone ever calculated the total number of times per year that someone with a handgun actully stops an intruder or "evil-doer" in order to spare themselves or friends or family vs. the number of times per year that the handgun of the owner who is compelled to protect themselves is the cause of an accidental shooting of a family member (usually a child), an impulsive and/or intoxicated shooting of someone who poses no threat, or taken by a disturburbed person who uses it to kill others. In mathmetical terms - handguns are a terrible bet for safety.

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Vortex December 18, 2012 at 12:52 AM
Your post contains neither logic nor facts, and has nothing to do with mathematics. Facts: - Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. Often the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed. (Targeting Guns, Dr. Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State University) - Every day 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun. In less than 0.9% of these instances is the gun ever actually fired. (National Crime Victimization Survey, 2000, Bureau of Justice Statistics) - Americans are five times more likely to burn to death, five times more likely to drown, 17 times more likely to be poisoned, 17 times more likely to fall, and 68 times more likely to die in an automobile accident than to be fatally shot. (WISQARS Injury Mortality Report, Center for Disease Control, 2007) - The non-gun homicide rate of children in the U.S. is more than twice as high as in other western countries. And eight times as many children die from non-gun violent acts than from gun crimes. (Kids and Guns ,Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention) Educate thyself, doctor. Surely during such a time, a child psychologist can offer useful advice to parents on how to counsel their children.
Dr. Mark Solomon December 18, 2012 at 03:17 AM
Nice try - you can't bother to identify yourself and there is no way to prove that all that preventing is going on -- the statistics you throw are the ramblings of organizations invested in justifying their existence. Saying that 8x the children die of all other sources than guns actually makes my point - lets see, there are millions of ways that kids can die from non gun violence but it's only 8x less. Again, what does how many times or ways that people die besides being shot to death by a handgun have to do with anything. My premise is guns specifically used to stop an attack vs. guns misused in a manner that brings about undesired consequences. As for the education - I'm satisfied with mine.
Chris Farley December 18, 2012 at 02:11 PM
Has anyone ever calculated the benefits of the multitude of gun laws already in places? Has there been any reduction in gun deaths in places like Chicago? Crime stats are misleading, so I'd rather not view them, however the eyeball test in Chicago says it all.
Benjamin Dover December 18, 2012 at 02:22 PM
Doc...Nice try - you can't bother to supply any backup for you assumption. An assumption that comes at a highly emotional time on the subject. Vortex gave you exactly what you asked for, however, it didn't fit your narrative, so you just dismiss it. Moreover, you claim they are the "ramblings of organizations invested in justifying their existence" - you mean organizations such as the CDC, the Bureau of Justice Statistics? These are government organizations. Gary Kleck, while he is a gun proponent, has done pretty extensive research at a reputable institution of learning. You say your "premise is guns specifically used to stop an attack vs. guns misused in a manner that brings about undesired consequences", that is exactly what Mr. Kleck has researched for years. What research have you done? I am going to guess none. Yet you think you know more than he does. Buy hey, you're a Dr., you must know more, how very smug of you.
Brian L. December 19, 2012 at 07:00 PM
I agree with you that Dr. Solomon would have been better served in using the numbers in his article. That being said, you state that everything you have put is categorically a fact, but the first numbers are estimated, the second is a survey, the third is statistically true, but it doesn't change the fact that guns are used to kill others. I would assume you have taken all of these from gun facts 6.1. It does hold good numbers and validity but many are outdated including your first point which is from 1997. Educating yourself on issues does go both ways. And nothing can change the fact that a gun is an easy purchase/find for a method of killing.
Targets_Whiny_libturds December 20, 2012 at 10:23 PM
All intruders and “evil-doers" should be collected, taken away and melted down. Clearly, guns cannot hurt, maim or kill without them. Problem solved.
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